Save BBC OUCH's Messageboards

lovely poem Sunshine thanks..

we've now reached 300 votes thats lovely and i think impressive given the short time weve been left with ..and that only a very small preportinon of those who contribute to messageboards let alone those who read but never post,and the like ever respond to petitions. jox

Hope is the Thing with Feathers

By: Emily Dickinson
 

"Hope" is the thing with feathers
That perches in the soul
And sings the tune without the words
And never stops at all,

And sweetest in the gale is heard;
And sore must be the storm
That could abash the little bird
That kept so many warm.

I've heard it in the chillest land
And on the strangest sea,
Yet never, in extremity,
It asked a crumb of me.

Everyone has a right to have some hope in their heart and if the BBC closes the Ouch boards they will be suffocating some of the hope in the hearts of people who post and read there now, and in the hearts of the people who would come later. Let them sing and let them be.

I see at least one disabled person has their own site...looking at the number of comments from the Professionalcripple they have taken the shoutbox over

"You make a mockery of all of us disabled."

Self referential us of US to exclude what the author wishes to dismiss and exclude!

Disability is not just Physical - it has other causes - readers are reminded of this so that they are not lead into error!

"I have a feeling a lot of these moaners define themselves in terms of
their disability. I feel quite sorry for them, what a tragic and
meaningless life they must lead."

Antagonism evident. Should such comment be made in relation to race/religion/sexuality it would be chargeable as hate crime.

Assumption that disabled people are worthless and communication on disabled issues is not worth consideration. Negative Stereotyping of disabled people - The use of "them" indicates depersonalised view of disabled people used to justify antagonism. Classic mentality for Scapegoating!

"I have every sympathy for disabled people who are genuinely trying to
integrate into society, but the impression I get from this small group
of people (200 signatures, most of them fakes) is that they are at war
with society, and they have no interest whatsoever in becoming a fully
functioning and productive member, preferring to navel-gaze and
antagonise."

The use of the term sympathy shows mental conflict between views expressed and reality of those views. The use of the term "Genuine" is used to express false sympathy and justify supposed conciliatory attitude to those who conform to authors world view. Classic bully tactic.

Justifies position by claims that can't be proved - "(200 signatures, most of them fakes)" - defines reality as author requires - self referential bias and again classic bullying tactic.

Use of group pronoun "they" to depersonalise objects of abuse and justify views expressed.

"fully functioning and productive member" - classic justification for antagonism by reference to authors perception of "Them" vs personal circumstances! 

"As such, the Ouch board is just a self pitying congregation of self
righteous angry people, and should not be saved.I do hope these people
will one day realise how misguided they are in their approach, and that
there is a much better way to give meaning to your life than this."

The use of "As Such.." implies an attempt to use logic in support of views expressed before and after! Distorted Logic common in bullying activity.

"just a self pitying congregation of self
righteous angry people" use of negative stereotypes and false logic against whole group of people - high Bullying activity bordering upon medically significant!

Attempts to require people to accept view and idea that people are "misguided".

Constant use of "them" and "they" indicates depersonalised view of Disabled People.

High levels of antagonism - beyond eduction - depersonalised views of others - High Level Bully!

Single post from social networking systems - intent upon abuse by misuse of systems - shows entrepreneurial versatility and awareness of systems - intent upon abuse with evasion of responsibility.

Most odd and enlightening(?) response to quotation from a book in publication written by a recognised expert in the field and a professional journalist to boot!

If you have an issue with the author - they can be contacted via their publisher.

"In 2007 Katharine started to investigate a number of violent killings of disabled men and women across the UK. As news editor of the disability magazine, Disability Now, she was able to put together the first national dossier of such crimes that year, following it up with an investigative report on disability hate crimes, Getting Away with Murder, for the charity Scope and the UK's Disabled People's Council, in 2008.

She has just completed her first non-fiction book on disability hate crime for adults, Scapegoat. The book is the first British investigation into disability targeted violence and will be published by Portobello Books in June 2011. Katharine was recently the joint winner of the prestigious 2010 Radar Human Rights Person of the Year award for her work on disability hate crime (with friends and colleagues Stephen Brookes and Anne Novis, for their online forum, the Disability Hate Crime Network)."

Please see analysis below!

Ref Post by pews

Single post using the social networking systems - Mocking content - offensive language - comment made in response to Quotation from book. Assumptions made as to personal habits, abilities and opportunities.

Single post indicates need to Sign In and Express - so activity to abuse is motivated by need to be abusive!

High level intolerant - beyond hope?

Speak for yourself.
Professional Cripple actually allows you to make a mockery of yourself only.

Ah, pews, you are one of those amazing people who has just tried to bully and mock a disabled person, but claimed that the person is, in your mind "stupid" and "without a clue who think they're the shit. and god, professional person, you are one".
I'm afraid that you have no idea if Professional Cripple is disabled or not, and you cant make that decision just to justify your opinions.

Still, keep up the good work, the more adverse comments and nasty remarks, the easier it is to make our case.

i don't mock or bully disabled people, i mock and bully stupid people without a clue who think they're the shit. and god, professional person, you are one!
when was the last time you stepped out your front door??

"These five physical locations for violence - public
transport, the streets, neighbourhood crime, crimes inside the home and
institutions - are joined by an emerging virtual one: harassment and
bullying on the Internet.


When I was drawing up recommendations for 'getting away
with murder', I talked to police officers and politicians about whether
the law on incitement - particularly relating to inciting hatred using
the Internet - should be broadened to include crimes against disabled
people. At this time I was unable to find evidence that the Internet is
being used routinely to mock, taunt, bully or harassed disabled children
and adults or to incite others to similar acts or to physical violence.


This isn't true any more. Three years on, there is
increasing evidence that the Internet (and, to a lesser extent,
television) is being used as a very modern freakshow where disabled
people can be mocked, as well as being a place where disabled children
are being bullied and disabled people harassed with virtual impunity."

Scapegoat: Why Were Failing Disabled People - Katharine Quarmby -  Potrobello Books 2011 - available from book sellers now.

Disability hate crime: Getting Away With Murder - published by SCOPE - available from the SCOPE website.

Well, this certainly has brought alot of attention to the cause.

Haters gonna hate, trolls gonna troll, barrels gonna roll... I could go on and on.

231. "You Bunch Of Sad Fucks" (unverified)

- THIS PETITION IS USELESS

Classic abuser - single anonymous post - language designed to create alarm and distress - sections 4A and 5 Criminal Justice Act 1986.

Antagonism evident by use of group - negative language used to emphasise abuse of group. Claim that petition is useless is personal view of the person - but presented as Universal View, showing self referential intolerance which can build from on-line aggression to real world verbal and physical aggression.

"(unverified)" - indicates that poster is aware of how they could be traced if they verified contact details. Misuse of internet systems to carry out abuse shows "Premeditation" and "Intent" to abuse.

Well said Malynda.....there are more supporters than not, in fact it's just a handful of weirdos who get great pleasure in baiting the members who see Ouch as very important to them.  Sad, sad people.

petiton signer 231,  *sigh*  do you not have something better to do with your time than to be abusive..to call people " sad fucks" hardly gets your point across...it simply makes the point that places where there is no moderation make it more likely that disabled people will be abused not because of a point they make but simply because they are disabled, maybe you could go away, and do something constructive with your time.

I think you are missing the point a little here.
It's nice that you have sympathy for those 'who function and integrate' and those who do not 'navel gaze and agonise' (I assume you meant agonise and not aggravate?), but you lack understanding about the fact that disabilities very a huge amount in severity, and for those who cannot get out, cannot work, and cannot 'integrate' these boards are a source of support and friendship, and do help prevent isolation.

The BBC are a publicly funded organsiation, funded by ALL sectors of society (including disabled), and therefore should be able to expect some services to be provided for them.  It cannot cost a lot, in the great scheme of things, to fund a small messageboard, and advising users to go to Facebook, Twitter and blogs, as the BBC have done, isn't really the answer.

They fulfill a different need, as useful as they may be to some.

I think perhaps it's you that's a little misguided, and it might be an idea to take some time to just relflect how your life would be if you were suddenly isolated from society, denigrated by a government inspired media, and couldn't get out and about much.

Thank you for your input, and for confirming your embarrassing lack of manners.
More confirmation.
And less of the old !!!

For many disabled people the issue is that others define as by our disabilities rather than as individuals and due to fear, hostility and ignorance hold us back from being 'fully functioning and productive members' of society.  We are not asking for special treatment but rather for 'reasonable adjustments' as enshrined by law to enable us to participate.

For instance I have had my car insurance stopped and only reinstated on payment of a hugely increased premium just because I have a mental health diagnosis - there is no evidence, medical or otherwise, to prove I am an increased risk to insurers.

Disability can strike anyone at anytime and places like the Ouch messageboards provide a vital lifeline and source of support to disabled people facing a difficult time in a society which seems to prefer to stigmatise us all as 'benefit scroungers'.

Do we navel gaze and antagonise?  Of course we do, sometimes, we are human after all.

. "200 signatures, most of them fakes"

Do you have any evidence to back up this assertion?  No, didn't think so.

"the Ouch board is just a self pitying congregation of self righteous angry people"

Which proves you are not a regular reader, or you would not be making such a blanket statement.  Unless, of course, it is a deliberate wind-up.

"what a tragic and meaningless life they must lead."

Y'know, I've been thinking that about the abusive sockpuppets and impersonators who have posted here.  I do hope life improves for them soon...

Thanks to all the genuine people who have signed so far :-D

Id be interested to know what your evidence is for assuming that most of the people who are signing this are fakes?

Also what ways have you chosen to make your life more meaningful other than coming onto a petition site  and being unpleasant to people who are trying to do something about a situation they wish to change? It would be nice to hear your gemsoff wisdom as you evidently feel you have something right that we have wrong

A la carte, I have a feeling a lot of these moaners define themselves in terms of their disability. I feel quite sorry for them, what a tragic and meaningless life they must lead.
I have every sympathy for disabled people who are genuinely trying to integrate into society, but the impression I get from this small group of people (200 signatures, most of them fakes) is that they are at war with society, and they have no interest whatsoever in becoming a fully functioning and productive member, preferring to navel-gaze and antagonise.
As such, the Ouch board is just a self pitying congregation of self righteous angry people, and should not be saved.I do hope these people will one day realise how misguided they are in their approach, and that there is a much better way to give meaning to your life than this.

* yawn *

Well malyndi the real one, you are probably one of those people that define themselves on the basis of their physical or mental disability, and hides behind it. Your whole identity revolves around it. You're probably on benefits just because you are entitled to them ,not because you really deserve them.
I do not, like most of us disabled. Ouch is a tiny corner of the disabled world and in my opinion that kind of set up has a negative effect on all of us, making people regard us as imbeciles deserving of different treatment. I don't want that different treatment! Who are you, pretneding to speak for all of us?? And harming our cause in the process. Get Lost!

Sorry for the language, but this kind f thing really does exasperate me.  Pretending to speak for al disabled people, while most of us despise and positively abhor this separatist, self-discriminatory rubbish.
Get rid of Ouch ASAP, I AM DISABLED AND I DONT NEED YOUR SELF-DISCRIMINATORY SHIT.

Well, 'ALaCarte', I already know what he'd say about you ;-)

Last post by 'ALaCarte' in reply to Hossylass:

"Oh f... off, you silly old biddy. get a grip."

Such eloquence!

Do carry on making a fool of yourself :-)

Oh f... off, you silly old biddy. get a grip.

Professional Cripple = Professional  nonentity in search of a reason d' etre though the internet.
Get lost, will you. You make a mockery of all of us disabled.

Yes all are welcome ..disabled and non disabled who have an interest .

Ps...the site is not just for disabled people. Anyone can visit and use it. I used it quite a lot last year when a friend there had a very bad time. It is equally valuable for carers too, and that is yet another section of society who fall under the radar sadly.

I am really upset to here this, I have found a lot of friends that have helped me over the years on issues that my other friends could not deal with and a lot of first hand information. Please please keep ouch message boards

The more "crip" bashing demonstrated here only reinforces the statement that "other" public sites, and social networking sites, will be dangerous to disabled people.Please, please, dont hesitate to show your bile, your hatred and your bigotry of disabled people, so I can stand aside and let you, the public, make my arguement for me.

This is a valid point. Meeting in a bar brings with it many issues - not least accessibility. The BBC view being peddled that social networking is equally accessible to all seems to be motivated by internal bias and employee experience rather than by research and informed debate.

The BBC have obligations to their employees to provide support and training, so should the shift to a Social Networking Focus cause issues in employment, the BBC are obliged to provide support  - but that does not extend to users and the general public, disabled or otherwise. That is why there are safeguards in the BBC decision making process - safeguards they have chosen to ignore.

Maybe they made the decision in a local pub? P¬)

I could choose to be a soap fan (or not), I don't choose my limitations but the Ouch board has been a source of information that doesn't exist for me elsewhere.

Excluding disabled people from the community centre on the grounds that we could meet in a bar is just wrong.

Entry 92 "Fuckety Fuck". (unverified) 

"I'm just another sock puppet, but hey, who's going to notice"

Classic hate activity. Reference to the term Sock Puppet, an internet slang term for an "online identity used for purposes of deception within an online community" indicates a pattern of harasment and anti-social behaviour across the net.

The expletives in the name are designed to offend and cause alarm and distress. Sections 4A and 5 of the Public Order Act 1986 apply.

The unverified nature of the poster indicates that they are the activity could be illegal. Indications of entrepreneurial and criminal versatility in using the internet and systems t y out abuse and hate crime.

Entry 184 on the petition list "184. "Up Yours" (unverified) 

"I DO NOT support this petition, now go and get a job" Classic hate activity. - Anonymous, reference to work relate to prejudice based upon person circumstances and related aggression.

If the Entry was made in relation to race, religion or sexuality it would be criminal. Expression of such ideas in a public space is prohibited.

Activity through presumed or actual anonymity of the Internet and social networking is an ongoing issue. Lack of recourse by the targets relates to "Situational Vulnerability" and lack of regulation.

Misuse of systems showing entrepreneurial and criminal versatility to achieve abuse is a common factor in the activity of bullies.

Activity to obtain an emotional response by minimal action is a common factor too. 

For some the ideology of "I Abuse, Therefore I Am" does apply".

Profile set up for only one post.

Plea to the rational used in argument - but full facts not considered.

Second paragraph is abusive using terms such as arrogance, disregard and self-pity to assert authority over others.

Possible Middle of the road intolerant, not past the point of education in the filed of Disability Discrimination.

Classic reaction to abuse via the net. Sadness and concern as to other's attitudes and mockery.

Victims of hate crime often are forced to withdraw and self exclude due to abuse.

Subject shows patterns of conformity and seeking others of the same views.

Subject attempts to express knowledge of the subject of Disability by telling group that he knows best. Worrying use of language from supposed position of self asserted authority .

The term "Whine" supports and expresses negative attitudes.

The use of the term "them" is indicative of depersonalising groups that the writer does not see as individuals and human.

"Disabled people are courageous and strong and don't want to be treated with kid gloves, .." the author may as well say I have a disabled friend and others from Minorities.

Disturbing.

Subject identifies aggression.

As per standards in hate crime assessment subject recognition of aggression related to disability identifies that Hate Crime should be assessed.

Subject evidently has little grasp of Disability Diversity.

"Because you're disabled? Oh please." - indicates intolerance.

Middle of the road intolerant, not past the point of education in the field of Disability Discrimination.

It is not just the Impersonation - it is the way that it is being done!

"I don't see any crip bashing, don't be so melodramatic."

The author claims to not see. Maybe this is caused by lack of knowledge of the subject.

Recommended reading - The Hate Crime Report - Scope 2008

Classic Internet Abuse targeted at Disabled Person By Impersonation.

Profile shows only one post made. Identity theft. Stereotypical views all too evident from content.

Classic Disability Hate Crime.

Failure to exploit the false identity and continue indicates knowledge of legal definitions in harassment = premeditation and cunning. Classic patterns in Disability Abuse - Hate Crime via the net.

Post identifies how Social Networking has become pervasive and an obstacle to Disability Access.

Whilst there are BSI standards for accessibility and related obligations under the Equality Act for all providers - the application of these to the interoperation of Social Networking Systems remains an obstacle to many disabled people.

Mocking Tone! Asks question to prove self justification.

Profile identifies only one post - so indicating that profile has been set up for only one purpose.

Classic net activity motivated by abusive mind set and xenophobia.

"I suspect there are already plenty of other outlets for them anyway."

Suspect = does no know the facts, so makes them up and throws around presumption in an abusive manner.

Them = Antisocial Langauge, does not see people as individuals, only as a group.

Mocking tone indicates self referential and justifying position. Antagonism evident.

Analysis = Classic Proto Hate Crime Subject!

This is not about "positive discrimination" Louise but it most certainly is that the disadvantaged position disabled people face in society (and especially the media) is recognised in law and all public bodies, including the BBC, have very specific duties with regard to trying to begin what is the very slow process of trying to redress the disadvantages we face in every aspect of our lives, even if this means treating us as a special case, precisely because removing something like a message board for and about disability and disabled people has greater impact on us as disabled people than removing any other message boards has on you and/or any other non-disabled person.
 
More importantly though in this case the BBC has chosen to simply disregard the special situation disabled people face in UK society and the part they as a high profile public body both can and should play in redressing this injustice as defined in the relevant legislation.
 
As such this disgraceful decision both can and will now be subject to a formal legal challenge and just perhaps, in view of this, you should be complaining to the BBC about the money that will now be wasted defending the indefensible instead of making negative comments about our campaign for simple fairness and equality in just how the BBC wields the axe.
 
Ultimately the BBC may be able to close the Ouch message boards and so you and others will get their way, but before doing so there is a clearly defined process which has to be followed under current equalities legislation and the BBC's own Charter and all indications thus far show that neither has been adhered to.
 
Given the special status the BBC enjoys in British society I for one will weep when it forgets its moral as well as legal obligation to represent and serve ALL of British society and not just privileged sections of it and I hope on reflection you and others would agree with this sentiment and sign the petition yourself.

To those asking why the BBC should provide messageboards for disabled people at all....have a look at The Archers messageboard/s, quite a large site dedicated to....a small radio soap.

Google the board, go on and have a look, and tell me if it's as useful as Ouch has been to thousands of disabled people. Ask yourself why THAT minority board has as yet been COMPLETELY unaffected by the huge cuts to boards on the BBC.

You may disagree that the BBC set aside time and resources for Ouch, to the benefit of many disabled people, but in the scheme of things, it's provided a more valuable service than the Archers boards.

Just a question: if you feel you're entitled to this messageboard as a matter of equality and human rights, then why shouldn't other 'groups' and minority also have their fora? How about one for elderly people? Or one for black people, or Muslims in UK? How about one for abused women, or similar? You see, you're not the only group that would like to have their own cosy, publicly funded board.
And finally, why should the BBC, a news organisation, provide a forum to you at all?

I feel sad for you about the loss of this important resource, but the arrogance, disregard for others, and self-pity displayed in your arguments do you no favours at all.

Best wishes,
Laura S.

I think that what makes the Ouch board different from many of the other boards that have been axed is that the other boards have a large amount of programming.  Take 5 Live - there's a whole channel.  But all that disabled people have is In Touch, See Hear, the occasional short series of All in the Mind and a few bits and bobs in consumer programmes.  Yet there are millions of disabled people in the UK. If the BBC is going to axe Ouch, then it's about time it devoted more broadcasting time to disability issues that affect so many people.

Well said JL. I couldn't put it better myself. Let's hope now their petition has fallen back to the third page in Mustarland they get the hint...
By the way, the people on Ouch from what I've seen are really not representative of the disabled community at large. Disabled people are courageous and strong and don't want to be treated with kid gloves, neither do they constantly whine about how the rest of the world hates them.

Many disabled people have used these Messageboards to end social isolation, exchange views and news. The failure to do a proper and public equality impact assessment casts a poor light on the Corporation. Even if the BBC holds of the view that it has no alternative than to take this drastic action, why hasn't it sought to work with this section of the community it is there to serve to find a solution.

I note that some have come here not to be supportive but rather to demonstate the diversity of humanity - especially at its lower reaches where there is no understanding, no compassion and no difference in intelligence between these creatures and animals who prey on others.

I am a little confused why people who have no interest in disability should even bother to post, maybe they just dislike or afraidof disability and want it pushed away out of sight.. take thee to the workhouse disabledpeople we"normal people dont want to have ro look upon ye "

Maybe they dont undesrtand that the BBC has responsibiities to minority groups .. in removing this board they are neglecting those responsibilities

Many of us cant get out easily alone.. thus the OUCH site has become a kind of community for us, a safe place where we can meet and discuss matters which effect us. As has been shown by someof the replies here  many people who dont have disabilities and disabled people dont understand oe care that when you are disabled sometimes different things become important to those of the non disabled world.

As for not wanting to pay for this board because the one you want isnt provided .. we pay a licence fee too and will now be paying for lots of boards we dont want... hope that makes you happy !

As for the impersonators GROW UP..maybe go have a relaxing bath and leave us be

Well I think it's dreadful that people are being impersonated.........they are the sick ones. What do they get out of it?

The more "crip" bashing demonstrated here only reinforces the statement that "other" public sites, and social networking sites, will be dangerous to disabled people.

Please, please, dont hesitate to show your bile, your hatred and your bigotry of disabled people, so I can stand aside and let you, the public, make my arguement for me.

I have also been impersonated, it makes me sad that people think it funny.

I would just like to draw attention to the fact that I did not post the below - someone has unfortunately used my name in which I post on a BBC board (not Ouch!, I use another name there).  I do not understand their reasons for impersonating me.

This is the very sort of behaviour that the BBC moderation protects disabled people from.

How dare you, how dare you! I am disabled both mentally and physically, I am considered a freak and people are disgusted by me in real life, Ouch is my only lifeline. I have been so lonely, then I found my online friend, without it I would have committed suicide by now. They are my only friends. What is going to happen to me now?
Save Ouch! please, our life depends on it. *raspberry*

BBC Ouch! provides a much needed service. It is the only place for people with disabilities to meet, share information, ask questions, seek support and share stories. All the other boards and social networking sites I have tried have either not provided accessible features so that everyone can participate or allow people who know nothing of disability to verbal abuse and harrass disabled people. You ask why Ouch is so special.... you may love sports, current affairs and music and morn the loss of such message boards, but Ouch literally saves lives. We don't choose to have disabilities, but we have chosen to build a trusting community on Ouch. While non-disabled people can access a whole range of boards to follow their interests there simply isn't another resourse like Ouch. We pay our TV licences too you know and yet the BBC are about to kill off the only facility that offers us true equal access. That is why Ouch is soooo special.

I find the way it's expressed objectionable, but I'm afraid I agree with Guvnor's sentiments. About 75% of BBC boards have been axed in the past 6 months, what makes Ouch so special, unless...  positive discrimination is on the agenda?
many sport, current affairs and music lovers have had to witness their beloved boards go under. Unfortunately it's the way the BBC is going, and I don't think any particular group should be favoured - much as I sympathise.

MIke they fund boards for eastenders and other areas, and disabled people have an RIGHT of access to the BBC by law, we are simply asking for our entitlement, we are about real life, fanzine sites are about fiction.  Who has the higher priority and need ?  along with Guvnor you are the embodiment of why we do NOT want to expose vulnerable people petty attacks as you and he launch.  Have you no conscience about poking fun at disabled people  wanting to be in safe areas AWAY from you ?

I'd like to sign but cannot get past demands to join facebook first, sorry won't join facebook as this is what we are campaigning against. Guvnor, why not troll somewhere else this is WHY we want to be at the BBC, to get RID of people like you and protect others against the petty abuse outside sites offer.  You have proven why we need this petition.

LOL, 68 signatures most of which are fakes and unverified! Not a lot of you, eh? And the BBC should provide a handful of people a messageboard why, exactly? 
In an ideal world we would all have our own specialist board provided by the BBC, but I don't want my licence to fund yours, if I can't have mine.

So glad they finally are shutting down that Disabled board. I really don't see why the BBC should fund a messageboard for a minority. I suspect there are already plenty of other outlets for them anyway. Good decision, BBC.